Meat – Nerve Damage (2012)

What does the matter of film look like? A clean image transformed by nature; dust and stains that have never been washed off. Pieces cut and glued to other pieces, sculpting each other. Film can be seen as a cocoon that holds a life inside it; when its physical essence is manipulated, burned, buried, painted, and sliced, the cocoon is cut open to reveal a caterpillar and a butterfly posing together with the carcass and gathering ants and flies. The American artist Luther Price disfigures film to reveal the beauty of the process of putrefaction.

Price has been doing this for over 25 years, most recently in the form of handmade 35-millimeter glass slides. In these, he makes the matter of film into its content, exposing what is actually present in it and on it, rather than what is represented through it. Minute, infinite braids and strands appear calligraphically within a coil of hair framed by translucent film. Dead ants curl up inside holes cut into filmstrips that have been chemically dyed brilliant shades of pink, purple, red, yellow, and blue. These works appeared at this past year’s Whitney Biennial before we saw them projected at the Toronto International Film Festival, as part of the Wavelengths and Future Projections programs. They will be shown again at this weekend’s Views from the Avant-Garde program, “A Luther Price Bestiary,” in New York.

The “Bestiary” also contains films that Price has completed since 2007, including entries in several continuing film series (Biscuits, Inkblots, Sorry, and the “Garden” films), as well as outtakes from older works. Price began working with Super-8 film stock in the mid-1980s, combining found footage with original material to create films such as Sodom (1989) (showing October 12 as part of Brooklyn Academy of Music’s New Queer Cinema series), a collage of gay male sex scenes accompanied by Gregorian chants. In the early 1990s he began mixing film projections with live performances, casting himself as figures ranging from a crank-calling foul-mouthed clown to a maggot to a bloody-faced Karen Carpenter. Personal tragedy led Price to abandon performance by the end of the decade in favor of films built around manipulating childhood family photographs. He moved from these into working exclusively with found footage, which he has done prolifically ever since.

This conversation with Price was held over e-mail. We found his written voice to be a natural continuation of the way that he expresses himself in his film, visual, and performance art, and have preserved his style accordingly.

What would you like to say about your Views from the Avant-Garde show, “A Luther Price Bestiary”? 

I’m very excited……..I will be screening new…….handmade slides…….Utopia (2012, 35mm)……..and an archive of images from past films………made from the tiny leftover scraps………….the splicer left behind……………I’m excited that we will be including static film work………….This is where my head has been this year……I’m editing handmade slides to send to New York last minute……..but I’m glad this is all coming together……….I have not completed a film since January………..I have many films on my shelves waiting……….half-complete chapters………………..old dusty films………………..just waiting………………..and new work….too……………about…………….car crashes…tampons…crystal meth………..heroin……………..Jesus Christ…………….the end of the world………………But I’ve put all my time into making slides……………..and everything else is collecting dust…………………I’ve spent the last few months making static films……………….I love where they go……………They take on another chance that I like and find ways for me to see better…………….I really only just try to find a better way to see and work that out……………..I feel that with slide work I’ve accomplished ……………….a sight……………..and vision……that I have not in film………..I would like to show what I’ve done this year with my handmade slides…………………To me…it’s sculpture and film……………but also shows how much I want to molest film………….

Number 9 – Pearl Fracture (2012)

How did you begin working with glass slides, and how have your methods changed over time?

I’m much more a 3-D….guy……I like the tactile elements………………of things and objects……….and even memory and thought……..have a certain weight……The library of our minds holds everything……..and so much of it is jogged into all of us……………I know what a camel is……..and I know what it looks like and where it comes from…….I know that it retains its own water……………and smells really bad…………………but I’ve never seen a camel…………..But I’ve seen a camel toe…In my mind…I know about a camel………This is something that interests me………….the fact that we have this huge world archive…….within all of us…………….and in a way…………….a vocabulary……………..through which we all know what everything is……………..We copy ……..translate………….and try to provoke……There is a layer of things in life………….that we may never unveil……………..but through time we unravel………and find a way to talk about it…………….

You also work with found footage. How do you find it?

Back in the late 1980s when porn switched from film to video……….all the porn bookstores were selling packs of three Super-8 films for $10……..Then they ended up in dumpsters……….So I did a lot of dumpster hopping……….and I ended up with a series of fleshy Super-8 films, including Red Rooster (1986, Super-8)…and Sodom (1989, Super-8)…..But from the 1980s to 2002………I also shot a lot of film……….and made very autobiographical work……..or performance-related………Like Clown (1990-1995, color sound Super-8)……..or A (1990-1995)….A failed attempt to make a 70-minute…..black and white and color narrative…………about a suicidal……washed-up movie starlet wannabe………I played “Edie”………I was in and out of it for five long years and was so happy for that to come to an end………Then in 1996, three members of my family got cancer….so I made films about that……….I’m glad I did, but it took a lot out of me………….I hated working…….It only made me sad……..I would be editing film and break down crying…….I’ve always worked with found footage………but I think it was when I realized that I no longer wanted to be so autobiographical…that I switched completely to found footage…….Still talking about many of the same issues but in a way that wasn’t as close……..removed enough so that I wouldn’t feel that pain that was eating me up………..But yes….I’ve had films come in the mail and then put them aside to look at a year or more later………and find that they were postcards to my life……….predictions……..of what was to come……….Many people know I think in repetition…..so friends will send me multiple prints…….or find reels of film at thrift stores………Just recently………I found a batch of over a dozen Super-8 porn films in the trash up the street from my house………..Medical footage also always finds its way to me somehow……..And they all work their way into this non-real reality………

Sorry (2012)

How do you work with footage once you’ve acquired it?

I live and work at home, in a very small beach house on the ocean in Revere, Massachusetts, right outside of Boston……I have a small studio……I keep it very organized………….The shelves are filled with films that have been pre-dissected………and edited into chapters……categories…….Right now…..I’ve got the Sorry chapters…………..all set and ready to deal with……..My process with Sorry was to…………find these repetitive loops through multiple prints and edit together chapters that would become their own vignettes …………..going by the myths and stories in them all……..but finding ways to say a little bit more……..I’ve included flies and maggots in one chapter to perhaps talk a bit about who and what is the parasite………….and the idea of godliness is next to cleanliness……………..I’m not trying to make fun of anything ……….It’s an old story …..told over and over and over again………..I’m just telling it one more time…….So………there will be a chapter on……….the blind woman……walking the cross………..the Last Supper……….on the cross………after the cross……..Then….there is the Biscuits series…….again, made with multiple prints…………..there are as many as six more films to make from that series…………The thing is, for the past few years, I’ve spent most of my thoughts on rotting films buried in my garden…..After they get to a certain point………I dig them up or pull them from a salt water bath or spray them down with concoctions…..and then let them bake and dry and rot in the sun………………………Mostly now……..I’m using salt and forms of bleach……….A lot of this footage consists of outtakes………but also very controlled cut works………..I like to recycle film……..so many of my outtakes…….end up in the garden or chemically manipulated……in some way………And of course……the optical soundtrack is affected by this transformation as well……………..For the past several months, I’ve been making handmade slides……….I’ve made several bodies of work this year………like Utopia……mostly looking for human content……..facial expressions……….We know that something is very wrong…………….and we are living it………and can we fix it?…………………..Perhaps not, but the slides provide an attempt to at least ask a question……I’m liking making the slides as well………….I think I will make better films in the long run from setting myself aside……and thinking about the static frame…………that also moves through a projector………at a different time rate……….I’m feeling how much I can explore even more……the tactile aspects…….of film…….and focus on single frames…………..These are things that I’ve done before in my work…….but I’m really loving this marriage of static still composition…..with a different formal time-based projection………..from 16mm or Super-8………..I’m also more than ever loving color…………..and to explore that within one frame is rewarding…….I’ve been working on the Inkblot films…….for a few years…………and feel I’ve established a relationship with the movement of paint and color……….but with the static…….handmade slides…….I feel they transcend……..and really begin to talk about the three-dimensional…….the object….These are all things I want to bring back to my filmmaking………A lot of it has always been there………..but I’m finding new ways of looking and working now…………….

Milly’s Cake (2012)

What are those new ways?

Working with handmade slides and static composition…….also the much more three-dimensional…..materials…….and the thickness and layers……….I will have to push the 16mm work into re-photography………through optical printing…..or through using a Steenbeck…………..Up until now………I’ve been working film to its limit before it becomes Frankenstein’s Monster…………..The original films are projection-ready and can run through a projector without self-destructing………Many of my much more manipulated Super-8 films….pushed the limit……but the originals were never projected……..I was lucky enough to have very understanding………persistent….and patient lab technicians………..and was able to get Super-8 contact prints……..I was also very lucky to get the master of optical printing……..for Sodom…………Bill Brand…………….but those days of contact printing are gone………..So I turned to sound film……..to make more performance-oriented works…………….that had much less to do with the physical skin of film and more to do with composition…….color…….and sound…Many of the sound films became very performance-oriented…………such as Clown……….Or when I sang “Reason to Believe” as Karen Carpenter……during a live film performance……in San Francisco…….in 1990…….A two-night performance……..of Meat…….Cooking liver on a hot plate……..and performing mindless medical rituals………..Ultimately……I was transformed into a maggot………..and writhing on the floor, devoured………The liver had been cooking for two nights on the hot plate………and stunk up the gallery forever after………..I of course, like Karen…..could not keep the liver down and began to violently gag and puke…………..All of this was being fed live from video……to screens and monitors…………I had several vignettes set up……….so after gagging to death from eating the rancid liver………I moved the camera an inch to the left and stepped in as Karen……..with a puke-dripping face of charred…….bile….and liver, and sang “Reason to Believe”…………..Around this time…….I was still able to work Super-8 in a manipulative way……..but began having more trouble with the labs wanting to deal with…….difficult films like mine………But they dealt with me and I was able to get a good body of work out…….with contact prints……..In 1994 I made Run……..Jelly Fish Sandwich…..In Black and White……..and Bottle Can (all Super-8)………..In 1995…….I sent A and Me Gut No Dog Dog to the lab, but at this point, the issue was not matter but content………A made it but MGNDD………was considered porn……and the lab people wanted to have nothing to do with it……………..The thing is that they had already printed both films before realizing this……..I couldn’t argue with them, since they had my originals…….which could have ended up in the trash……..They agreed that A……wasn’t so fleshy…….and said that that would be ok but they could not be part of printing and distributing porn and would have to put the print of MGNDD in the trash……..They were nice enough to send the original back to me…………Later Bob Brodsky and Toni Treadway…….worked with me and they transferred it to video………..and of course, they did a fabulous job…………but this was a sign of an end for me………Around that time, my family got cancer…..so I made “Cancer Home Movie Films”…………..Mother (1998-99, Super-8)……Home (1990-99, Super-8)…………I’ll Cry Tomorrow, Parts 1 and 2 (2000, Super-8)….Ritual 629 (1990-99, Super-8)……..Door #2 – 37 (1998, Super-8)……..and several re-photographed Meat films…………..which screened at Threadwaxing in 1999 as part of a retrospective……………..After that…….things all changed………My sister Sally died of cancer at the age of 37………My parents invited me to move into the bungalow beach house……close to them………My father then died in 2000……..skin cancer………..By this time, it seemed, all I was screening were films about cancer…….No one wanted to come to the screenings anymore…………they were too depressing………..and I became very drained ………as well……….But that was what I had to talk about………….After my mother died in 2001…….I thought….“I can’t talk about my own autobiographical life anymore”………Everything came to a dead end……….I didn’t want to pick up a camera and shoot film………I knew I did not want to go back………I had to somehow move forward……….Then in 2002…….I submerged myself into found footage……….still dealing with human suffering and content…………but it wasn’t so directly connected to my own personal life………….

Fibroid Family Kitchen (2005)

…..At one point, 6 years ago……..I felt I had become very resolved with things in my life and had reached a contemporary state…………….But that was the problem……I found a resolution…………and defined a cycle……….of issues…………..but then I felt so lonely…………and quite empty………..The things eating at me were now resolved……………and I was left with a big blank empty unknown…………………….In my gut…….I felt I needed to move on……………….So I dove into a more abstract world of decomposing film by rotting it in my garden…………and thinking about color to roll out my Inkblot films to drive myself into a visceral beautiful turbulent place…………………That visceral….turbulent place……….turned out to be more than I expected……….Everyone was afraid to show the films because…….they were dug up from the garden after rotting for months……..Although they had been cleaned in my kitchen sink……..they still retained a skin of what could be described as a toxic tar………..left in the film gate and cogs of the projector………..rendering………a film projector to an early grave………………..The original Inkblot films…too became a huge issue………..This wonderful fast-drying ink I was using left a dusty thick residue once it dried…………..and that was even worse than the rotted garden films…………….These films soon were coined…..“the unprojectable films of Luther Price”……………..So………Even with this newfound reputation……….of making unprojectable films………Saul Levine still gave me a screening at the MassArt Film Society in Boston……….Patrick Friel of Chicago Filmmakers…….and Onion City [Experimental Film and Video Festival]……always found a way to screen the Inkblots………..and never once threw up his hands with a single complaint………….Mark McElhatten……….screened the work at Anthology Film Archives…………..and Ed Halter and Thomas Beard at Light Industry in New York………………….and I am so grateful that they all trusted me and my work enough……….to get it out ………….and project these original problem films……….It wasn’t until late 2011…I realized during a visit with Ed Halter at my home…….that these films really were a problem………If I were to project these films in public without complete humiliation……..something needed to be done…………….Ed’s projector that he brought over was very sick with film emphysema……..and cog and sprocket cancer…………..He used many many Q-tips and alcohol to clean his projector………but never once yelled at me or hated me……He just said…..“Luther….We have to find a way to project these films”…………….And after 6 years……..I did…..But I had to find a way to clean them once and for all without destroying the art work……and original state of them………..I cleaned the “Garden Films” with cold water and cotton balls……..running them over and over, back and forth………through my hands………….until there was no more grit…….dust or filthy tar………….Then…..moved on to the Inkblots……….The Inkblots made with this one particular permanent fast-drying ink……..had retained a very thick residue…….consisting………….of a powdery dust…..left on the surface of the film………I used dry cotton balls………running the film back and forth………………until the cotton balls………were as white as “Mary Had a Little Lamb”………..I have saved all the cotton balls…………and Q-tips………….as objects…………..remnants of the clean-up………….I think they are very beautiful in their own way…………….Of course……..the remnants of process are always important…………..It’s not always about what you are working on…..but how it gets there…………….The original “Garden Films”….and Inkblots were cleaned………………the ones that Ed and I chose…………….and they ran through the projector like butter………….at The Whitney………….The projectionist did not hate me ………….Even though these films were screened as originals……there was not a single problem…….and the projectors lived to see not only another day but worked for a week without any problems…………..Well…….I feel like Sally Fields now……..but I’m very grateful that Ed and Thomas trusted the work and that the projectionist at The Whitney…………………..understood the work was original……….and could be a problem…………..But they kept it all going…day after day…..

Inkblot #9: At Twilight (2008)

The visceral aspects of some of your films, like Sodom, have reminded us of horror films, in particular the fear they can play upon of the body being invaded. What effect have horror films had on you? 

Horror is everywhere……………………Sodom is pretty tame I think………….not very scary……….The idea that this young boy is somehow being violated and sacrificed……….by having a man mount and pound him………is something harsh……….He seems to be in a lot of pain……………and the pounding is relentless……….It’s a recreation of destruction and death……..so there is no forgiveness………Those who……….will take in their last load……during the act of autofellatio……………………and raise their asses to the sky as the hot red flame rains down………….to smother the cum…………….from ever finding the flesh……………….I think Ritual 629……….is a scary film……….in contrast to Sodom……There is no room for a story……………..you are just left with this relentless ritual of an ass fucking a raw and filthy toilet plunger…………….The ass and the hole is nothing but something dirty to be unplugged……………and pounded and pounded because it is just a human hole………………..a piece of raw rump………….and the only thing left is a wet sticky cum rag……………….Some think that Fancy (2006)…………..is a very hard film to take…………but you must remember……….even with all the gore………….it is about fixing and helping………….not about torture and torment………………The body is being repaired……………..so no harm…………………Sodom was meant to bring about that fear that we have………….that gay will ruin everything…………Gay will molest and destroy all things good……..Lock your doors Lady……..Jerry Lewis is coming to…….fanny doo……..your cheap………Hummel collection above your fake fireplace…………..then he’ll fanny doo………every inch of your house…….up and down……….and down and up……………….and then go away quicker than Santa………..but will leave some cookies behind…………..Now……..that’s a nightmare……………..

Meat – Self-Portrait (2005)

My new work……………has to do with cats……………hairy guy asses…………….and men…………….and the perfect fat fatty……………..with a nice helmet…………………I want to go back to flesh and talk about that for a while……………….I like things about guys……….I like an apple face……….green eyes…..hairy brows……….a bright white smile and facial dimples……Pretty much………..Colin Farrell………….but in every crayon…………..He’s hot in pink purple black gray yellow green dark blue light blue………………but orange gets a little crazy…………..So what if now I want to talk about guys…………….There is a whole world…………….legs………….hard and worked…………..lazy and limp……………..fleshy and toned…………….a runner……..athletic………strong legs…………..living legs………muscular……………….with great feet……………….thighs and hamstrings………….and gluteus maximus……………….a fucking nice ass…………and a hairy hole………………an arched backbone…………….sticking your ass out in public view with your thin…..almost transparent……….athletic shorts……………….You have to see to believe……………hairy……..pounding pecks with thick nickel nipples………….washing his body in soapy suds right in the public swimming pool shower……………..off to the side but I found him……………..and watched….him sud himself up with soap……….all up his groin….around his ass……..and beautiful hairy chest………all soapy…naked and man………I knew standing there at age six……………I wanted that….I wanted him…….He was the most beautiful thing I ever saw in my life……………..I watched him wash his soapy prick……..and turn around to hand-wash his ass and then down his legs and then his big hands rubbing his chest and armpits……………..My mother never knew……..She was sitting by the pool in East Boston…..with a cute little one-piece and her hair in a ponytail………………But I knew……….When I got back to Mama……………all I thought about was him…………His hairy body and fat cock………………After that…….I knew what I liked…………and loved……….I wanted that soapy hairy guy………………I was only six years old…….but I saw for the first time………………a beautiful naked guy………….and that has lasted with me forever…………………

Meat – A Fly in the Lens (2005)

Is there anything else you’d like to add?

I must…………….say I was excited to get your last question…………but it’s not really a question…………but I’ll say the last words………Sometimes little boys have nightmares and bad dreams…………..You know this man covered in grey dust is walking………….he is very far away……..but he never stops walking……………..He was walking to find me …………..No matter how long it took, he would find his way up the steps to my door……………..and then knock at the door……………….and then pound and try to push the door in…………….In my dream…….I was in the other room……………Everyone was together watching TV…………..but I couldn’t cry for help……..They couldn’t hear me…………..It was as if I was pressed between glass……..I could only see my family sitting on the couch in front of the TV……………….in that night-blue mercury light……………..and I was alone and the gray man was walking up the steps and banging on the door………………This was my nightmare………………..I would have this same nightmare over and over and over…………….I was six years old……………..I remember saying to myself….“The only way I can describe what is happening…….is to someday make a film about it”……………And I did…….In 1987, I made Green………………and it talks about all the ghosts in my life……………Actually in retrospect the film tells my future………….Everything has come true……………..In the beginning of the film I recreate the gray walking man……………I took on the character for that…………to relive my childhood nightmare for film…………..Now I realize ………..after all these years I was always the gray man trying to get me……………….or perhaps warn me……………I was always the gray man……………….

Number 9 – Green Oxidation and Rust (2012)

Last thought……………if not too late………………..I want to enjoy a sandwich under a tree………..not to think about anything else…just the sandwich……………

Thanks to Andréa Picard and Jennifer Matotek of the Toronto International Film Festival and Lia Gangitano of PARTICIPANT INC for providing this article’s images.

The hand made Luther Price

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