Having come to New York from Indiana to be more involved in the arts, it makes me especially sad when I hear stories of important contemporary artists being met with opposition in my home state. Events such as Fred Wilson’s E Pluribus Unum proposal have been met with heated opposition in Indianapolis, IN. (see Modern Art Notes for good coverage) Or Marc Swanson ’s Fits and Starts being damaged by students on DePauw’s campus in Greencastle, IN in 2005. I recently stumbled upon a student’s YouTube documentary, Fits and Starts: A Deer Diary, detailing the events that unfolded around Swanson’s piece in Greencastle, IN. When I found out that Swanson had never released a statement about the incident, I decided that now was the time.

Ben Valentine: Talk about the sculpture Fits and Starts and its history leading up to its installment on DePauw’s campus in Indiana.

Marc Swanson: A curator named Miki Garcia at the Public Art Fund in New York City originally commissioned the sculpture. The piece was installed in downtown Brooklyn at Metro Tech for a year with no incident. The Public Art Fund normally has a number of sculptures at this location.

I chose a natural alcove with trees and shrubs to install the piece because it was made to look like a bit of forest and gave the sculpture feeling of being in a diorama in the middle of an urban area. It also seemed a perfect fit for the deer, who is jumping and looks as if he doesn’t know where to go next; if he were actually able to run he could only get about 15 feet at most in any direction.

After the year was over the piece was sold to DePauw University, with funds set up by a private donor to buy outdoor sculpture for the campus.

BV: What happened then?

MS: I was scheduled to do a talk at the university a month after the piece was installed when I was contacted by Katie Johnson, the chief curator, who I was working at their art museum. She said one of the antler tips was damaged and asked if I could repair it when I came to do my talk and I agreed.

This being my first public sculpture , I was not surprised that some issues might arise. I knew Katie had been excited to get the piece installed because she thought the students would love it.

I asked, “How is the piece going over?” and she said “weeeeellllll… its really got people talking.” I got the feeling that some people were upset, but she didn’t say anything else. I figured you can’t please everybody.
Maybe a week or two after that Katie called and said that another antler had broken. Then a day or two later she called and said that the deer had been damaged very badly, and the sculpture had been removed to avoid further damages.

I was shocked. it was then that she admitted that the deer had been hugely controversial and told me she would send some information to explain. What I received was a package of school newspapers, local papers and a DVD of local news broadcasts about the deer controversy. There were many angry letters to the editors. It seemed most people there really didn’t like the deer and didn’t think it belonged on the campus.

I was told at the time, and again recently by people that were there, that this was “the biggest thing” that had ever happened on their campus. There were no protests there in the 60’s unlike many other campuses, so I guess the deer was it. I don’t know if that is true, but it’s what I was told.

BV: What was going through your head while this was unraveling?

MS: I was very confused. I had made similar pieces but they were always deer heads that hung trophy-like on the wall. I thought that because this one was less obviously a trophy, it may be dismissed as being too decorative. As it turns out, when you put a deer covered in rhinestones on a 90% Greek campus and in big deer hunting country, it ends up being a very powerful piece.

I was confused because nothing happened to it for a year in downtown Brooklyn, but within a few weeks on a private college campus, it was damaged so badly it had to be removed. I was also surprised by the venom and harsh criticism that I read in the letters to the editor, especially in the school newspaper. People hated it, they really hated it.

I remember one young man said “it looked like a two dollar whore and should be destroyed and thrown in a dumpster where it belonged.” I also read it was being called “disco deer” and “Elton John’s dog.” Of course I started to wonder if it was too gay for these guys; I mean Disco and Elton John do have one big thing in common.

The anger was definitely there, but it seemed the students didn’t know why they were angry. They didn’t know how to articulate it. I heard over and over that it didn’t belong, didn’t fit in, and that somebody should have told them that it was going to be there. The community also felt that the school shouldn’t have spent tuition money on the deer, not knowing that it was privately funded.

Another interesting but confusing thing was the deer’s Facebook page. (This is how I first encountered Facebook.) Students posted pictures of themselves riding the deer naked, pretending to either be having sex with the deer or receiving oral sex from the deer and even peeing on the deer. What I took from this was that most of the reactions were very primal and visceral.

BV: What do you think about the school’s response to the damage?

MS: The school’s response was very interesting. At first it was talked about by some as maybe homophobic and violent, but that quickly changed and was chalked up to ‘boys will be boys.’

The school was very reluctant to say that it was for any reason besides “drunken tomfoolery.” I thought it was pretty irresponsible to not at least explore why.

They supposedly took a very hard stance, saying that the perpetrators would be arrested and thrown out of school. I thought that was a bit harsh. As far as I know they put out a call for people to return the broken antler pieces that people had kept for trophies. I think two girls turned them in and were punished. Apparently they also punished many students who had photos of themselves riding the deer in their dorm rooms. There didn’t actually seem to be much effort put into finding out who did the major damage.

On the other hand, the art department did a huge amount of outreach. They had meetings on art appreciation and the importance of public art and such. I was given the surveys they administered, and one summed up what I saw as the problem quite nicely. The student liked the deer, was against its vandalization and thought it should be returned to the public setting. Meanwhile, at the end of the survey added a comment after an asterisk that said, “but I don’t think we should be promoting gayness on our campus.”

People thought some crazy things. In one letter to the editor, I was accused of installing the deer with the butt facing the student union as an insult to the school. When in fact I didn’t actually install it, and had no opinion about the school or its student union.

I received banners where the students were allowed to vent their feelings. Some comments were positive, some were negative, but all were honest. That said, I think the Art Department’s outreach seemed very successful.
There were apparently lots of protesting back and forth on campus, which resulted in a student making a very interesting and well done documentary about the whole event. I never had any contact with this person. It is called “Deer Diary” and can be seen on YouTube.

I have to say that through all of this, I never took it personally, and it really didn’t upset me that much. It was kind of fascinating to me to see how much context could change the reaction to this deer. In the end I was happy to see lots of great discussion about censorship, art and personal expression come out of it all.

I should also say that the curator, Katie Johnson was very sweet, supportive and apologetic throughout the whole thing. She initiated most of the outreach. I received many letters of apology and support from faculty and students alike. I also got letters of thank you, saying things like “thank you — having the deer here was a powerful symbol. I don’t fit in here either and people say I don’t belong and I feel like the deer… because I’m different.”

BV: This is the first time you have chosen to talk about Fits and Starts. Why did you choose to not participate in the discussion publicly in 2005?

MS: I was scheduled to do a talk about my work a bit after this all erupted and I chose not to come or comment for a few reasons. First of all, my Dad asked me not to go because after reading some of the letters to the editor and doing some research, he thought it might be dangerous for me.

The personal reasons I didn’t go were very simple decisions for me at the time; I was scheduled to go talk about my work, not to defend my sculpture, which was what was going to happen. Secondly, I didn’t want to shut down the conversation. I thought It may have been motivated by homophobia but other people didn’t think so. When you read about these things the conclusion is always “the artist feels this is the reason that this happened.” It tends to become the accepted answer, but it’s just another opinion. I made the piece and that was the end of my direct involvement. I wanted the conversation to continue without anyone thinking they were wrong because I didn’t agree with them.

BV: What do you think about DePauw’s decision to move the sculpture indoors?

MS: That was largely my decision. I felt the deer would always be a target and on a campus with so many fraternities, I thought that it would be just too tempting to cut off the head to hang above a fireplace.

There was also a practical concern for me. The school had very much wanted to put the deer back outside to prove that their students had learned from the experience; that it wouldn’t happen again. The deer is their property so they can really do whatever they want. I basically said you can put it back outside, but if it gets damaged again I won’t repair it. I was paid for the repairs but it took a huge amount of studio time and repairs are one of my least favorite things to do, especially ones that take weeks. There is also shipping, packing and unpacking to deal with and lots of logistics that take up so much time. So it was something I was unwilling to do again. The school ultimately decided to show it indoors. To be honest I guess I don’t know how much my feeling had to do with it.

BV: What did you learn from this experience?

MS: That context is everything, and that it’s no wonder that most public art is devoid of obvious content or intent. People read into public art very personally.

BV: Thank you so much for talking with me.
MS: You’re welcome. Thanks for asking me to do it, it feels good to see it all on paper.

A good contemporary artwork should not be liked by all — if there are no strong opinions about a work then it is most likely boring. That is not to say destruction of art is ever warranted, but putting meaningful art in the public sphere is never an easy task. We must take inspiration and caution from the student reaction to Fits and Starts in Greencastle, IN, and continue trying to make public art that is meaningful and contemporary. There must be a balance between violent rejection, and complete disinterest, hopefully the dialogue the occurred around this piece will help artists and curators better understand audience.

Fits and Starts: A Conversation With Marc Swanson

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